Re: Chinese Professor

The recent ad by Tea Party related group showing America "owned" by a Communist China in 2030 shows a great deal about the inner fantasy life and desires of people drawn to authoritarian movements like the tea party.

BBC News - Big name firms form alliance to drive cloud standards

Some of the world's biggest companies are using their market clout to demand that computer equipment makers change the way they make their machines.

The 70 firms, which includes BMW, Shell and Marriott Hotels, said systems that do not work together are holding back the spread of cloud computing.

The companies have formed the Open Data Alliance Centre to push for unified standards for technology.

The businesses involved account for more than $50bn (£32bn) in IT spending.

"The old way just won't work anymore," said Andrew Feig, an executive director at Swiss bank UBS.

"We want to pay for what we need, when we need it."

The principal goal of the body is to help businesses cope with an explosion in the number of people that will want to access services and applications online using a plethora of different devices from phones to TVs to tablet computers.

Researchers estimate that another one billion users will come online in the next five years.

BBC News - Big name firms form alliance to drive cloud standards

This thing could destroy the world?

Photo by Gail Orenstein

Leh, after the 2010 Flash Floods killed dozens of people in the small city of Leh.

This poppy is the product that could undermine the entire developed world.

Counting the cost of Leh flood

This was the count 2 weeks ago, it probably has risen.

Breakdown of a Hospital

Photos by Gail Orenstein

The Leh Hospital was built at the bottom of the town. Maybe it made sense since all the major roads went down hill, maybe it would be easier to get people to it rather than building on higher ground. But when this years monster rain hit Leh the hospital was ruined.



The flash flood left almost half the hospital under mud. Fortunately the near by Army hospital was able to do emergency surgery, but the conditions for those waiting for care in Leh hospital were terrible.

Terrible floods devastate Northern India

Leh India

Lost in the news of massive floods in Pakistan and China, Leh in Northern India has experience some of the worst flooding in decades. The arid desert land rarely sees any rain fall. Homes are often made of mud bricks and straws and as this remote region grew with tourism and the presence of the Indian Army homes and businesses were built in places that traditionally would have been left empty.



Then this August several days of heavy rain hit Northern India. The rains were not has violent as those hitting parts of Pakistan or China but for an arid desert surrounded by mountains the impact was devastating. Gail Orenstein photographed over 170 dead bodies outside the Leh hospital. They had been brought in over two days from the local area. More were trapped in the remote villages where, with the roads washed away, there was very little hope.



No one will likely ever know how many families were washed away in to the rivers and are lost forever. After a week of rescue work Leh was still cut off by all but land. Tourists fled, taking with them one of Leh's main sources of hard currency to purchase food stocks which will certainly become more expensive as the long roads from Kashmir have been damaged.

Leh Flash Floods in India

Gail Orenstein has been covering the devistation from the Flash Floods in Northern India. This is one of the first images of her work she has been able to get out of the area. More images will be coming soon.

The human impact of these photos has been terrible. Gail has been covering the work at the hospital and morgue. At the morgue she was asked to photograph the dead for the local police, since the Leh police force only had a film camera. To date Gail has processed 150 images of dead persons for the police.

GOP declares health care bill leads to socialism!! Americans, need to stop this health care bill in order to avoid becoming a socialist nation. "When

Photo.G. Orenstein. Image Not owned by Yahoo

Comments

ben aushtiin says:

Very nice!
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

delhibiguy says:

and what exactly is wrong with a socialist state???
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

ben aushtiin says:

Well, I should point out that the government had to take over a few very large banking institutions and bail out some automobile manufacturers, even under the Bush administration...nobody had objections to that! Or enough to prevent it anyway! Why not healthcare too? Maybe after that we can get a grant to openly carry guns!
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

My Nude Photography says:

Awesome Breasts!

Title is bollocks though....... We've had national health care in England since the 40's and we ain't exactly socialist...........
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

My Nude Photography says:

Hi, I'm an admin for a group called Girls I'd like to Photograph......., and we'd love to have this added to the group!
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

GAIL MARIE ORENSTEIN says:

Well define Socialism. All parts of all governments have some socialist elements-this is not a bad thing.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

sam j rollo says:

...but it's ok for the repubs to interfere with a woman and her dr.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

totocebu says:

I have health insurance but after an approved operation Blue Shield and Blue Cross will not pay due to an internal error from the said insurance company. They told me to pay the entire bill of $10,000 out of my own pocket. Now I can't afford to buy a new Nikon D3.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

NickFun says:

Toto, you should contest that! Get lawyers involved. If you have a shitty lawyer then get another one. Sue the fuckers if you have to!

I know too many people who seemed to have it all then a catastrophic illness hit and drove them into poverty! I don't have health insurance right now and I'm lucky that I'm in perfect health.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

RadioFreeCalifornia says:

How many trillions we gonna spend doing it the old way... What the Republicans don't like is lack of profitability. You need oil, a republican donating corporation sells you some. Need food? Conagra... Need health care, take your pick between whichever health monopoly controls your area and pay a grand a month for nothing. They'll teach you about "wellness".
In defense of the medical profession, the serious lack of tort reform coupled with this compromise cluster fuck of a half ass health reform should be fun to watch for a while....
Maybe they can find time to debate what holds this girls pasties on..
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

ben aushtiin says:

I like that observation RFC, nothing like wellness training! Too bad it does not work for illness and injury though, and I see Toto has has the same experience with Blue Cross that I have, now to see the circus that follows with this chopped up batch of so called reform that has not happened yet...
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

Tree_Top_Flyer says:

I'm tired of the right wing diatribes, and completely amazed by the drug-medical-insurance triumvirate and their hold on the American public's health and welfare.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

d_nurv~unsafe says:

i live in a liberal democracy...and pity the poor suckerZ who have been brainwashed into thinking they are better off without socialized medicine...

there is only one way to describe this kind of mentality...two actually...cruel and barbaric
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

GAIL MARIE ORENSTEIN says:

Hi D-

I agree. I live in the UK, they all complain about the NHS, but at the end of the day, when you are sick and you walk out with no bill, no one complains.

When I lived in the US, I used to pay for Blue Cross and Blue Shield. The only thing it did was make me feel blue for how high the payments were and shield me from a lot of care as I have a pre-thyroid condition.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

Professional Recreationalist says:

Many American's are blinded by delusions of grandeur. Ignoring Canada's far superior and more humane health care system continue's to sentence so many U.$. citizens to an early death, or a life of needless pain, suffering, and poverty.

I've lived under both systems.
The U.$. Health Care $ystem $uck$ and is cruel.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

Having used Australia's health care system and had a friend bankrupted by the US system I think I would prefer to be a healthy socialist with money than a dead bankrupt capitalist.

Those breasts look like commie breasts to me

They have no obvious means off support yet are still standing firm :-)
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

Photo Lover Too1 was deleted [deleted] says:

I would like to socialize with this girl!
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

mentorcarlos1 says:

Hi, I'm an admin for a group called Unique Tits, and we'd love to have this added to the group!
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

showmeone says:

great way to sell socialism--i'll take 2 ;-)
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

GAIL MARIE ORENSTEIN says:

Hi Show-

I agree!!
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

While i agree there is definitely many problems with healtcare like with most corporations it is run inefficiently and unfairly. But what i dont understand why people believe that the government who cant run anything well should take over healthcare. The reality is when has the government ever run something efficiently and with in budget. I mean do we really want to give them more control after they keep screwing up everything else.
The reality was their was this systematic failure in our economy because of not lack of regulation but a failure of enforcement by government agencies...
Not to mention the mayo clinic will no longer accept medicare because they are getting killed by it... so how is cutting medicare even more the answer... or how are people so blindly willing to say oh atleast its budget neutral or better. Yet we pay now and the benefits dont kick in for four years...its manipulation and hype. If they cant fix the system we have now adding more new issues will only create disaster.
(fannie may freddie mac... poushed by the government to lend and lend more... and now we keep giving them endless checks because government fails to do anything right or take responsibility for their failures)
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

Professional Recreationalist says:

...even if you accept the premise that the government runs things inefficiently, you also can't be ignorant of private business and greed.

Once you eliminate the government and allow medical services to be delivered by a private industry, you must allow for profit, something the government doesn't take.

And -- the proof is in the pudding.

I lived in the U.S. and the private health care system sucks. The service sucks, and the costs suck, and the accessibility sucks, and the accountability is hidden by corporate lawyers...

Private business is far worse for taking accountability, because that takes away from profits.

In Canada - EVERYBODY gets healthcare.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

So all that we here about Canada's health care and the waits and inability to get things dine in a timely manor, is that all lies?
And what is wrong with profit? At the end of the day things get done because of greed...and yes there are problems with the system but we should work on fixing it like allowing for competition between state lines etc...
But to allow government to take over is a horrible idea and we see that by the mass amount of discontent by the people. Most people are happy with their healthcare except for cost... Which is run uo by frivolous lawsuits and other bureaucracy.
Obama and his crew were all about saying lets do it lik ethe mayo clinic...they are a shining example..and guess what they dont want to do business with the government...i think that speaks clearly at the pitfalls of more government control.
Enough is enough with them throwing around our money like its monopoly money... They run things inefficiently and over pay for everything except the right things...
They do a construction project and automatically give 32 percent over the going rate just stupidity with how they run things...
All government is a failing poorly run corporation that is is debt. the senators and congressmen who voted years ago to give themselves automatic raises every year so they wouldnt have to vote on it and let the people know..where were they in all this when they were saying let's freeze spending lets start with their salaries...
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

Professional Recreationalist says:

What's wrong with profit? That's funny.

:-)

...YOU pay more, everybody pays more - for the SAME service.

Yes the wait-list stories are lies and exaggeration.

The wait-list horror stories you speak of are taken out of context.
People who love profit and want a private health care system up here exaggerate wait-lists to create the illusion of a need for a private system.

The truth is, the waits are NO different than down in the U.S. - and more important, in the U.S., MANY are often DENIED treatment because of no healthcare coverage or being unable to afford the treatment.

In Canada, everybody gets the treatment they need.

IT'S HILARIOUS, AND VERY IGNORANT, WHEN PEOPLE SUPPORT THE U.S. SYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE ARE OFTEN DENIED MEDICAL TREATMENT AND PEOPLE GO BANKRUPT BECAUSE OF MEDICAL COSTS.

IT'S A LAME AND WEAK ARGUMENT TO RELY UPON THE EXAGGERATED CANADIAN WAIT-LIST MYTH WHILE PEOPLE DIE AND GO BANKRUPT IN THE U.S. BECAUSE OF WIDE-SPREAD INADEQUATE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

NOBODY dies or goes bankrupt in Canada because of inadequate coverage or wait-lists.

I'd rather wait a short while for minor surgery than not get treated at all. There is NO wait for emergency surgery in Canada.

.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

Its convenient you pointed out one small point, rather a question and focussed all your attention on that.
What about all the other factors that are involved... you want to pretend like money doesnt matter well that is nice lets all go move to a commune some where and throw money away..or we can live in a world where everything costs money. Yes there are problems with the system and yes people get denied care and people die because of it... but the system also saves plenty of lives and people are over all happy with it.
show me one program that government has done better then th eprovate sector and i will understand better where you are coming from... seems to me the mayo clinic dropping medicare speaks volumes... social security going broke, Obama spends and spends and nothing to show for it while they blame the banks is a joke. How is it a senator making under 200000a year lives like a millionare...how is it that politicians live the good life just like all these ceo's they are villifying... its a joke. They are 100's committees and organizations on government that are redundant doing the same thing... government wasted better than any one else because they think they have an endless checkbook... surprise they dont that is why people turned on Obama so quickly. So make a valid argument and we can discuss ... I dont care about Canadas health care as i live in the US.
Who will pay for every one getting health care?
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

Health for profit has had some pretty bad disasters here in Australia

Health companies over servicing their customers by making them fear disease and have way to many tests.

blood test companies charging for expensive blood work that they did not do ( one company actually performed 1 test out of every 3 while charging for the 3 tests ) to increase profits.

Private hospitals doing unnecessary and expensive procedures to increase profits.

Health insurance companies give profits to shareholders if a government run company makes a profit it is reinvested into better services.

I have seen excellent and very efficiently run public health systems and really bad private ones.

You cannot just say Private is better.

Who pays for people who miss out on healthcare ? Universal healthcare improves the general health of the population improving the productivity and efficiency of the country as a whole.

Perhaps is Americans were less selfish and greedy they would think of themselves as members of a community rather than individuals.

Funny how they chant religion at any opportunity but ignore the basic commandment "Love your neighbour as yourself"
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

Once again thats great in theory, but this isnt about greed or being selfish. Its simply about i pay a lot of money for my insurance and it woul dbe difficult to pay some one elses share. So to make an ignorant blanket statement about Americans shows your thought process and you can not be reasoned with.
At the end of the day government is wasteful, The plan as it stood was to cut medicare which already is hurting and take away care from millions of seniors which rely on it.
So to repeat I dont believe the system is the best it needs to be fixed and regulated better. But government taking over and paying for it by cutting medicare and taxing every one else for four years before we even see a benefit seems like a shady and pointless solution. One state tried a plan like that and they went over teh projected budget with in a couple of years and is completely in disarray trying to fix it.
SO once again i ask when has the American government ever run anything better than the private sector?
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

Professional Recreationalist says:

Better? You keep measuring better in dollars.

Better is providing health care to all.

Better is people not losing everything they own because of family membe'rs illness.

Big business and those like you who are profit motivated are the reason the U.S. and much of the world is in such terrible financial shape.

Profit. Greed.

We're supposed to be talking health care here.

Not making profit.

Not making money.

...it's all about providing health care for people.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

goinonbro So why do we need government at all ?

Why don't we outsource the military to private companies like Blackwater and Haliburton seeing they have done such a wonderfully efficient and cost effective job of contracting in Iraq and Afghanistan?

We could just sell America to the highest bidder, I am sure China would be in there in a flash and make a great offer for your country.

You do not care for anything other than profit and economic rationalism why stop at health ?


A report released today says 1 in 5 American children is dangerously obese Why is the wonderful American health system not solving this problem in the same manner as the Australian government run system?

America has more smokers than Australia by a ratio of 3 to 1 why is the great American health care system not addressing this problem ?

You have more diabetics and more heart disease why is your wonderful health care system failing you country ?

Sorry I just don't buy the propaganda of the health industry they are there for profit not for the long term health of the whole society.

I am happy to pay tax to see children running and playing with good health and a good future regardless of if they are my kids or someone else's.

I guess I am just a little less selfish and greedy than you.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

GAIL MARIE ORENSTEIN says:

I am happy to pay more taxes and leave the hospital with surgery I had last week and no bill.

Yes, I paid for it in taxes, but it was worth it-I also never pay a dime for my thyroid medication which was 125.00 dollars per month, plus my Blue Cross monthly, which was about 114.00 per month in the USA as I had a pre-existing thyroid condition, it would not cover that medication.

The system in the UK is vastly superior to the USA. I grew up in the USA and I grew up a rich, privileged kid so the system was great for me, my parents shelled out for top doctors at Yale university.

Now, I cannot imagine, what I would do and that is one of the reasons I could never go back to the US.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

Hope you are OK Gail

The thing about hospital bills is they come when you can least manage to pay them, when you are sick or injured.

My mother had many cancer operations on the Australian version of the NHS she had top surgeons and great care in hospital.

We were more than happy to pay our tax and know she would be taken care of by the government system as she would not accept money from us.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

That's all very convenient yet i am not all about profit, I am about reality. You can read it how how you want but still not answering my questions.
I am not saying government should have no role as we need better regulation and a better system, i agree. But to blame health care for a higher rate of obesity? Please its once again about education and regulation.
Did you know that the FDA allows companies a 20% margin of accuracy on packaged goods. SO even if you think you are eating certain amount they could ll be wrong....
What about personal responsibility? I watch what i eat and when i dont get fat... Health is a personal choice and no not an easy one but don't go eat at MCDonald and eat more fruit...
At my girlfriends hospital there is a McDonalds in the hospital...IT's ridiculous.
But back to the point about how i am "all about profit and greed" No I am about being able to afford my own healthcare and taxes... It's gone up and up and I cant afford to pay even more to cover millions at the same time cutting medicare from millions... It's not the answer. I am glad in England and Australia you have it down and people are happy but this is the US. and the government has not shown itself to be able to handle business in an efficient manner...forget making a profit but with growing and out of control budgets they are taking from every one to run at a unmanageable rate and historically high deficit. What I am saying when you dont worry about profit and just spend endlessly its easy to say lets add every one but HELLO REALITY CHECK ITS NOT FREE.
I cant be more clear. Its not about greed its about efficiency and government has no real motivation to be efficient...its a messy and inefficient system.
YOu want to say th emilitary is run well? Half our soldiers are paid like crap and we cant afford to give them the supplies and protection they need... YOu want praise government for running it well... There are mothers out there raising funds to send there boys bullet proof vests and proitective gears..MEan while we spent billions in overages on failed experiments for new weapons that dont work... And no one is held responsible yet they continue like normal...
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

Professional Recreationalist says:

GOINONBRO says: "i pay a lot of money for my insurance"

...and this is for a system that bancrupts sick people and denies healthcare to the poor -- and he still can't see the problem.

GOINONBRO also says: " you can not be reasoned with"

...but he's so insistent on proving himself right that he doesn't realize that he is the one who can't be reasoned with.

...closed-minded people suck.

GOINONBRO says, "I can't be more clear"

That's true, because, he is so wrong it's pathetic.

It's been said, over and over again, but he can not see the forest for the trees.

Rage on Goinonbro, somebody has to be wrong. A story always needs an antagonist.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

Wow let's get personal. Well i will stick to the topic. You still have not answered any of the issues i have raised. So how about instead of getting personal you try a discussion. You refuse to talk about the points i raise.
First to say the problem is i pay a lot and there are still problems with the system is exactly what i have said over and over... I mean come on what is th epoint if you wont read what i am saying.
So how is making it more expensive to cover 'everyone' in an inefficient manner helpful. Offer some some solutions for once instead of this blanket idea of lets get every one health care...
HOW? I keep asking HOW WILL YOU PROVIDE FOR ALL?
The plan that was offered was faulty and i have repeatedly pointed out why but you dont seem to dispute these issues.
SO ok lets all move to the world where you all live and say ok free health care for every one...fortunately i guess in your world there are money trees and everything is magically covered.
BUT in my world here in the US there are no magic trees even if the government acts like there are.
SO try this offer some solutions instead of a vague idea with no answers. Then you can say i am wrong and pathetic and try to belittle me instead raising yourself up with intelligence
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

Professional Recreationalist says:

I have, we all have, addressed your issues.

It is your choice to listen, or not.

Your tangents may have relevance to you, with your rationalizations, but the issues have been explained to you, and from you at us, ad nauseam.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

GAIL MARIE ORENSTEIN says:

hi Gion-

I agree with your point about personal responsibility, eating healthy, exercise, etc.

But a lot of people have pre-existing conditions that cannot get covered, what do you say about that. They did not ask to be born with epilepsy, etc.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

Ok i just reread the posts by you Professional and no i simply dont see one answer to how to resolve the issues. So indulge me instead of attacking me show me one quote where you offer an answer, a plan, a way to pay for all this anything just quote it me and i will apologize.
You complain about the current system and say how good others are. But that does nothing. We can just drop our entire system and do what some one else does.
So no you have not given one actual response to any of the issues i brought before you. BUt that is fine we can agree that you think you are right and i am wrong...SO be it.
SO let me show what it means to answer a question...
Gail I completely agree there are some serious issues with our system. As for people born with issues it is a serious problem because the companies simply no they will lose money... So can we force them to take on clients? Thats what the proposal was which is great idea except teh one thing the democrats didnt really speak to much about was even though there would be a mandate forcing Insurance companies to take on people with conditions they would not cap how much they charge, so what good is that none... They would mak eit unaffordable. So yes i believe in my limited knowledge perhaps there should be set a side a percentage of profits specifically geared to take on clients who are sick.. Maybe mandate a certain percentage of clients need to have a pre existing condition... But i am no expert.
I also think there should be competition between state lines i think there should be a heavier cost to frivilous suits for the people filing.
Trust me i know my girlfriend is currently stuck in the hospital (she is a nurse) after being forced to stay and work a 16 hour shift only to sleep for a few hours and work a 14 hour shift... The system has a lot of issues. Not only that i know of a nurses aid working at a friends hospital who was negligent, made up numbers (blood pressure heart rate) would sleep on the job... The nurses filing complaints regularly but nothing was done until they caught on camera faking numbers and even now they are so scared of teh unions and law suits they may just give her the option to quit rather than get fired. SO now show can go work some where else endangering the lives of others.
So you can say i am close minded and stubborn or greedy and a profit monger, but all you are doing is what the politicians do distracting from the fact they have not offered a viable solution. So instead of a radical new approach lets start by fixing what is broken. Let'/s see if we can make things work better. Lets start by following through on the regulations that exist maybe then add to it... But just cutting billions in medicare raising taxes threatening people who dont get insurance with jail time or a fine seems to me not the best solution...As evidenced by the people of this country who are not for the changes. If the system was so aweful why arent they in the streets shouting to pass the changes instead of voting out all who are for it...?
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

Professional Recreationalist says:

...it's cute how you think I'll read your rant <3> Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

A simple 1.5 % tax funds our healthcare system in Australia

if you want to you can have the option of private health insurance but every person paying tax pays the 1.5% levy.

As simple as that.

Why fix a broken system when you can get a new one ? There comes a time to admit the system you have is fatally flawed and beyond repair Just clinging to the old for ideological reasons is not a valid argument.

Have you ever decided it was time to stop repairing an old car and gone out and bought a new one ?
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

"If the system was so aweful why arent they in the streets shouting to pass the changes instead of voting out all who are for it...? "

Have you heard of the word Propaganda ?

With enough power and money you can convince gullible people of almost anything, you can make them think socialism is a terrifying thing and that jews need to be exterminated. you can make them believe or disbelieve without any facts at all.

America and Americans have been the victims of a very effective propaganda campaign to keep rich health care companies and their shareholders rich.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

GAIL MARIE ORENSTEIN says:

"As evidenced by the people of this country who are not for the changes. If the system was so aweful why arent they in the streets shouting to pass the changes instead of voting out all who are for it...?"

Because the narrative like "death panels" and "killing your grandmother" stirred up by the likes of Palin, Limbaugh and the GOP scared people.

Once this nasty rhetoric entered the scene it lost its message and instead of healthcare, it birthed out the Tea Baggers.

Now which would you rather have?
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

Propaganda... Come on you want to talk propaganda how about the democratic machine trying to push through the healthcare bill with out reading...You want to know what scares me is to get members of their own party to vote fo rit they had to bribe them with 100s of millions of dollars for their states in some cases they were given a free pass not to pay for any of the changes.
Once again i ask how to fix it?
We are not your countries we are the US I cant comment on how things are done but it seems to me if every one could get healthcare with 1.5 % tax it would have been done.
But all i can comment on which you all are missing is that the proposed changes were horrible. I have repeatedly showed over and over many issues that would be problems including cutting medicare.
They claim to want to follow the mayo clinic example who later said we want nothing to do with the new proposals.
you want to talk propaganda lets talk about Obama endless speeches and non stop rhetoric with not even having a bill in place..But lets just pas ssomething which is netter than nothing idea...yea that worked great with tarp and the bail outs
Yes i would rather any other party than this one.. They are spending like my girlfriend in a hello kitty store...out of control and on things that will do nothing. So i will try one last time now that we have the professional debater out of the way. How should we as AMericans pay for these proposed changes...
And what changes should we do? you all talk in general as a simple concept national healthcare...but i dont know what that would mean here in the states as i never experienced...so please explain how it would work here...what about funding? what about illegal immigrants? what about abortion what about medicare?
please talk in specifics not in well we like socialized health care..that doesnt mean much to me if i dont know the details
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

GAIL MARIE ORENSTEIN says:

God damn, Hello Kitty shit is that expensive?
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

If you think healthcare is expensive

Work out how much disease and sickness costs America each year.

It is simply cheaper to have a healthy society than one suffering from preventable diseases.

Sorry to disillusion you from your rose coloured glasses that you obviously have welded to you face but America and Americas are people they are no different no better and no worse than any people anywhere in the world. THRERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL OR UNIQUE ABOUT YOU OR AMERICA.

Perhaps if you education system was also more functional you would comprehend that fact :-(

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

wow you all seem to have one thing in common to not really answer any questions actually 2 things to be mature and attack me personally.
I didnt claim we are special...i do claim not to know how your systems work and would like you to explain but i guess its easier to be a child and attack others.. i guess your education system teaches you to not grow up. well done.
and how exactly does national health care prevent disease? i guess i missed that part of your articulate and well defined answers.
keep up the good work i am so convinced now i should respect your opinions.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

GAIL MARIE ORENSTEIN says:

Gion-

Don't go. What are the questions again.

1. ?

2. ?

everything always gets lost in flame wars.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

Yes please what are your 2 questions ?

I am sure we can answer them for you.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

GAIL MARIE ORENSTEIN says:

Well I will take a shot at what they might be,.

1. How does National Health care prevent disease?

2. How do we fix the overall health care system in the USA?

Is that what you feel you cannot get answered?
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

" I dont care about Canadas health care as i live in the US. "

you tell us you do not care about other countries when we use them as examples of working national health care systems then reprimand me for informing you that there is nothing special about America or Americans.

You pose a question then get angry at us for replying then tell us we do not answer the questions you ask.

I would suggest that your argument is not entirely rational on this point.

If you ask a question and empirical evidence is sited at least have the good grace to accept that evidence.

If you want to see if the example works in America then I would suggest you support the Obama Democrat initiative and give it a chance to work before just saying it will not work here.

That is not a reasonable nor rational argument.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

Ok let me try this one last time. I say I dont care about Canadas health care not because it doesnt matter but because its an established system that has been implemented over many years of adjustments and fixes.... SO i dont know that just saying well our works here so the US should do the same well that is not at all what was presented by the democrats and Obama. SO for you to say give his a chance well they suggested making adjustments to the system we have using lets say CAnada as a potential example.
But what is not rational is saying well it works in Canada so it will work in the US. we are not dropping our complete system then switching to CANADA or Australaia or England...
The proposal was to amend fix and adjust the current system by issuing new regulations and forcing the current insurer to accept clients with pre existing conditions yet it doesnt limit ho wmuch they will be charged... So for you to say i get angry for not answering the question is because of a failure of all of you to answer the question pertaining to the issues that where proposed in the changes for our system.
A blanket statement of it works in Canada is not empirical, logical or the point at hand.
We will not have Canadas system no matter how much is based off of it...I cant be clearer on this point. The proposed changes to our system were not to drop our system and pick up your it was to make changes to ours perhaps add an option for a givernment run plan yes but that brings on many questions...
SO you claim you are answering my questions then lets try it again.
Who will pay for all these changes? (as it stands they will pay for them by raising taxes, implementing these increases immediately and no benefits would start for a minimum of four years.. cutting medicare by 100's of billions, and every ones insurance would go up substantially in effect causing many people to have drop their insurance plans)
Why is it ok to cut medicare, wont that hurt the millions of seniors who rely on it... causing their insurance costs to get raised?
How can the privatye insurer compete with a government run plan who cares not about profit or even covering the cost?
How is it constitutional to force evey one to get insurance under the threat of fine and/or imprisonment?
If its not what th epeople want (whether its because of propaganda or not as boith sides use propaganda to get their point across) why should we implement it against the will of the people ?
It doesnt address the real issues of frivilous law suits, my girlfriend spends half her night writing and rewriting every thing she does and everything that happens to protect her from lawsuits) and interstate competition then what will be different?
How about we start with all those questions with out taking personal jabs at me or calling me names but stick to the opinions on the subject
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

WOW and you accused us of ranting !!!!

So if I understand your point of view and let me paraphrase this.

no one should ever try anything new for fear it

(a) does not work or

(b) costs some money

is that the basis of your objections ?

just trying to keep this simple and to the point.
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

are you for real? when did i accuse any one of ranting. I accuse you of one thing which still holds true. you wont answer my questions. seems so simple you can change my mind just answer my questions..stop avoiding the issues stop trying to manipulate what i say and answer the questions.
No one said not to do anything i have said over and over things need to change so stop avoiding the fact that you can not answer the questions..
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

Ok who will pay for the changes ?

the American people you are the richest country in the world you can afford to care for all your citizens not just the richest ones.

Why is it Ok to cut medicare ?

because they will replace it with a new fairer and better system.

How can private insurers compete ?
They offer a different an better service, competition and change is what capitalism is about If you cannot compete you go out of business .

How is it constitutional ?
you simple amend the constitution that has been done often enough.

Hopefully you bring in laws that prevent vexatious and frivolous law suits.
the same kind of laws that we have here.

Does that answer your questions simply and specifically enough ?
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

Actually no not at all....
The whole problem with th eanswer is i dont care if we are a rich country as you know health care costs are drowning tha average american. That is part of the problem we cant afford the rising costs so once again your vague ideas does not actually reflect the real issue. So are you suggesting we pay via taxes, raised costs in every one elses insurance.... i mean give me a an answer with some freal thought and detail.
Thats a great idea but they are cutting medicare and essentially going to force the elderly to join the regular system which will be more expensive so sorry that is a nice thought a better system but not what was proposed.
No capitalism is not about competing with a competitor that has an 'endless' bank and doesnt need to be profitable or answer to any one. No one can compete with that.
Why should we amend the constitution... the idea is ridiculous to force people to buy something or they will imprison you...is that what you think is just?
Hopefully you bring in laws is not an answer there was no laws brought in their plan..
SO thanks for trying but once again you are not addressing the real issues in a realistic manner...Words like hopefully, more fair and better are vague and subjective and not real solutions.
They are words the Obama administration like to say to get people to believe in an idea with out any concept of how to accomplish their ideas. I am pretty sure people are sick of empty rhetoric like that...
We need real answers and real change
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

So what would you propose as a solution ?
Posted 6 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

really? still no answers?
if you have read my rants as some of you have called them..i have given some things i believe need to be addressed and more importantly solutions to some of the issues... like putting a higher price on frivilous suits. if a judge or panel find the suit has no merit at all they need to be charged at a high enough cost that lawyer wont take a case unless there is a real case there.
also competition across state lines seems pretty obvious . more real competition. and more i have already discussed. i am hoping to hear some real solutions from you ...?
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

So what would you propose as a solution to the health care problems in America ?


You have told us our suggestions will not work in your country so what would you propose as a solution?
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

ok for a while i thought i was crazy as i was getting no answers, now i see the reality is you are obviously messing with me. so thanks for wasting my time. if you didnt have an intelligent thing to say then why bother...
glad to see people are using the internet in such a productive way.
if you didnt have the interest or knowledge to answer a single question then why bother hijacking an actual debate?
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

Professional Recreationalist says:

I always wanted to be, a lumberjack!
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

goinonbro So you really don't have any ideas you just want to say no to things that are different because you are frightened of new things ( and terrified that you have to part with some of your money :-)

you dismiss what we have to say on the subject and the solutions we offer as not being American enough for you but when asked how you propose to solve the health care crisis you have no ideas at all and continue to bluster and rant.

As my Grandmother was want of saying "Empty Kettles make most noise"

Go and press some wildflowers with your friends.

cheers doug
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

you have not said one solution while i have said plenty... you either are screwing with me or are to dumb to realize what you say is incredibly hypocritical and wrong. you as my friend matt says "suck at life"
when you have something intelligent to say please do. you still, in a very obama way, have said a whole pf nothing and blame me for all your own faults. i am now dumber for having participating in this "debate"
lesson learned thank you doug
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

No sorry but I have read and re read you posts and I cannot see where you have proposed a viable system of healthcare for America

you have indeed said the present system should be fixed rather than replaced but I can see no suggestions on how it should be fixed or how you propose to cover the large and growing number of uninsured Americans who are missing out now.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to quickly cut and past the section where you have explained your plan for health care and where it is located in the discussion ?

As you assure us you have already explained your plan here.
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

Professional Recreationalist says:

...a lumberjack?
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

Professional Recreationalist says:

Yes, a lumberjack.

Leaping from tree to tree as they float down the mighty of rivers of British Columbia. The giant red wood, the larch, the fir, the mighty scotch pine. The smell of fresh cut timber, the crash of mighty trees, with my best girly by my side, we'd sing, sing;

BARBER:
I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay.
I sleep all night and I work all day.


MOUNTIES:
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

BARBER:
I cut down trees. I eat my lunch.
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shoppin'
And have buttered scones for tea.

MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He eats his lunch.
He goes to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays he goes shoppin'
And has buttered scones for tea.
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.


BARBER:
I cut down trees. I skip and jump.
I like to press wild flowers.
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars.

MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He skips and jumps.
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing
And hangs around in bars?!
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

BARBER:
I cut down trees. I wear high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie,
Just like my dear Papa.

MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra?!

[singing]
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
He's a lumberjack, and he's okaaaaay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

I am still waiting you to address issues specifically beyond well it works in other countries but no actual detail. its amazing to me how many times and different ways you can avoid the reality that you have not made one solution beyond go with what they say...
instead of cut and pasting, i will do highlights, a percentage set a side from profits would go to a fund to oay for the uninsured backed by government support with the monies they save by fixing the current system and making it more efficient. allowing competition across state borders allowing for more competition will reduce the individuals costs as the companies will lose their monopolies. also helping to reduce as i have spoke in detail about cutting out frivolous lawsuits. cutting out extreme wastes of government spending by ridding themselves of hundreds of redundant commitees. i would even go so far as to stop the automatic raises for the houses i government and their ridiculous packages that basically pays them for life their full salaries...
focussing on regulating hospitals who mistreat and abuse the nursing staff over working them and burning them out which decreases efficiency and productivity.. if hospitals run better they can afford to carew for more patients... also lowering frivolous suits allows for dr insurance to get lowered which will allow for more doctors to remain drs and more importantly new doctors to come in to the business in order to handle this new overload of millions of people that would need care..
and most importanly is deal directly with those in the system like the mayo clinic who know more than we do and work with them on a realistic plan.
and of course instead of bribing members of their own party to vote yes take the billions that they give away for pet projects and use it to offset increased costs...
how about Obama coming through on his promises and getting off his high horse of criticism and actually getting rid pork barrel spending like he made so many points to say he would. how about creating an open forum where we can actual watch the debates and all that transparency he promised us so we can see what we support and what we think is political manuevering...
ok your turn how about answering some questions now
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

Professional Recreationalist says:

No, no, he's not dead, he's, he's restin'!

Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, isn't it, ay?

Beautiful plumage!
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

goinonbro Sorry but magic wand options do not work in the real world, yes what you suggest would be wonderful but any realist knows that is not going to happen.

The more you try to repair a broken system the more committees and waste you build into the system, as I have said before their comes a time to stop repairing the old and to bring in the new and make a fresh start.


You system proposes that those who pay for healthcare subsidize those who do not pay, a fairer system would be if everyone paid a small percentage of their income so everyone got cover. If you want more or better cover them go to a private insurer but basic health and medical would be covered by universal Government insurance.

your legal system could do what they have done here and judges simply throw frivolous or vexatious cases out of court and impose costs on those who bring them. Not many people attempt such cases because a few judges stood up and said "NO!" to the lawyers.


Regardless of who is in power there will always be pork barreling and corruption you need to work on a system that minimizes that not pretends it will not exist.

Your ideas are good in theory but would fail in the real world.
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

You think it is easier to revamp and start all over than try to implement some changes?
and once again what the reality is that they are attempting to to change our system and fix it with radical changes....
so how is what Obama's agenda more realistic than mine if his changes are by far more radical yet still with in the boundaries of the current system
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

I never said it would be easier

It will be far more difficult an option than fiddling round with the edges.

but have you every heard the description "Shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic" ?

Making small changes is not going to change the outcome, the American healthcare system is failing, it needs radical change.

It would be nice if people supported the change rather than running round yelling doom and gloom.

Every other first world country has managed to cope with universal health care based on a government run and tax funded system.
'

What is so different about America ?
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

Because the biggest issue with system is the rising costs and people can not afford it as is... i dont know how much you pay in taxes for it where ever you are but now i pay $4000 a year for the cheapest plan i can get. I havent been to a dr in years which is not the point of course but still its a lot of money. Now i can not afford to pay even more...
And my point about difficult was in response to the magic wand comment... seems more realistic to work with in the system and make do able changes and start some where then trust a government who has proven itself to be less than adequate to change the largest and most important thing with untested unproven radical ideas that even members of their own party can not agree upon.
The bottom line is givernment is in a horrible place where they are passing things with out reading the bills or the details. Obama is out there bullying any one who speaks against him not allowing for real discussion... meanwhile he flip flops every where trying to just get something done...
So once again i have tried to at least give some solutions to what i think needs to be done...
So i ask you to do the same in return and give me specific ideas on what you are suggesting...And not just say universal healthcare but if so how do we pay for it (and just saying do it is not realistic the economy sucks to pay more more is not the answer i cant do it)
What about Dr's we dont have enough to add 30 million to th esystem...what about illegal immigrants etc...
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

Medicare is running at 1.5% tax so work that out on your wage or income.

Obama spent the first 12 months in office attempting to be inclusive and accommodate the republican right wing Americans.

All he got in return was a stone wall of contempt and insults. He now seems to have changed tack and is working to get things done regardless of what they right thinks. Either way they are going to say he is wrong evil a socialist muslim antichrist and the rest of the venom they spew.

I think he should be admired for even attempting to negotiate and trying to lessen the confrontational politics we are used to seeing in the past. Working together always accomplishes more than working alone.

Sadly it also takes 2 sides to work together.
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

Really? you think you he tried to work together? I am not sure where or why or how you have come to believe that. He tried pushing through everything by strict democratic support and look at the evidence he even couldnt get full democratic support. The reason he has flip flopped so much is to try and appease the different groups with in his own party on things like abortion.
It is the exact opposite of what you said. He is now pretending to reach out to the republicans because they can filibuster anything.
Lets be real he made a lot of empty promises just like all politicians he appointed a lot of shady characters and has had to get rid of some of them in reality thanks to fox news for making people notice. His motives are suspect at best as he has used some extreme bullying tactics to those who disagree with him, something you wouldnt expect from some one who was so harsh on Bush scare tactics and now uses the same tactics to say we need change in healthcare.
So i ask what has he accomplished in his first year...
And as far as talking, he keeps talking while Iran keeps pushing further and further because they know he is a talker and not a doer..scary to me
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

GAIL MARIE ORENSTEIN says:

I don't recall G W Bush being so micro-scrutinized after 12 months in office. To bad because perhaps we could have kept a tighter leash on the rogue bastard!!

The point is, most likely personally you will not feel the affects of anything for awhile, no matter who was in office right now. GOP/Dem.

The USA is hurting so bad. It went to fight a war it could not afford, don't talk about Iran, the USA would get it s ass kicked in because it simply could not afford to fight another war. The country is broke in case you have not noticed.

Bush had a lot of programs but none of them were paid for. What I would like to know is, lets say a REP won, what do you think they would be doing right now after 12 months and why is the GOP taking the stimulus money if they would have been doing it differently?

If a republican won, I would hope it would not have carried on the Bush legacy, because the country would be even more destitute and China would have to come in and buy up even more to get its ass back on track.

So the republicans have taken the stimulus money, I guess that works for them, now they are drafting their own health care bill, so I guess some of the policies Obama has put in place are ones the GOP must like or they would not be taking the money and drafting a health-care bill. Oh I forgot, they also have a tea party, which is their own idea.

I don't know yet how Obama is doing, it is far to early to judge something so complex which has followed years of destruction. But it looks like the Republicans make a stink about everything in public, while taking on board everything he is doing in private.


What is he going to do about Iran, the country is broke-is the USA going to now take on Iran, North Korea, I want to know what you want him to do about Iran, borrow even more?
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

GAIL MARIE ORENSTEIN says:

Gio-

You cannot possibly take Fox news seriously. Do you cry when Glenn Beck cries. I mean how many Howard Beil moments is that guy going to have.

It is pornographic, how many anchors in mini-skirts with bleached blonde hair, tight ass dresses do they have- is this a standard requirement on the Fox network.

It would be like taking John Stewart seriously. I mean I like his Lenny Bruce knock-of style. I think he has some funny interviews but its not news.

When I turn on Fox and see the fox news babes, I can see how it would be a smashing success. I do this myself with this site. It works, sexy chicks and news.
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

goinonbro says:

Its starting to sound like i have heard all of these arguments before by the Obama administration. Once again its called avoidance and distraction. I simply want to know are we better off with what Obama 'has' done since he took office. Its been a year and yes we can judge him because in that year he has spent more than any other president has and what has he to show for it.
And to say well the republicans are taking money so that means they support the package... Please that is a silly twist on the reality. it would be irresponsible to not take the money. Th ereality is these places need the money. To say no would be stupid. Its our tax dollars and so they better get some back fo rus. Doesnt mean it is the right way to spend the money or they have to agree with the what they are doing. I dont see why that is a difficult idea. I was against alot of the ways they have chosen to waste our money but i for damn sure want my representatives fighting to use it for my state and get it back for us.
As for health care again i dont get what your point is... They have always had ideas for healthcare and nobody has denied that the system is broken and needs changing.. This is not a new Obama conceot and the gop has always said that want o male changes. The difference is the Obama does not care what they think and even now has said we have put "together a bill that is meant to pass the senate and congress so if the republicans cant agree we will pass it with out them"
that is his style. Screw what others have to say, forget the promises of bipartisan policy he wants what he wants. He is still riding the ego train that got him in office where people were enamored with his speeches and ideas...but reality has set it after a year in office people see him for the worst kind of politician that he is..empty promises and a huge ego.
To say the media didnt scrutnize Bush his first year? It was 9/11 and he was scrutnized...and please after that Bush bashing became a sport by the media yet now they barely will say a bad word about Obama and his agenda. if you cant admit about how incredibly biased teh media is then this is just silly because your eyes are shut.
As for Fox news, you can bash them all you want but the fact is the antics and show doesnt change the fact that they get results and are the only ones who will wpeak about the truth about this administration. They helped get rid of criminals like van jones that Obama surrounds himself with.
Iran, the difference with how Iran is handled by Obama and how an experienced person would have handled it is simple, Obama wants to make nice with the people that want to hurt and kill us, he wants to apologize for our horrible ways and say the USA is bad. then he decides to make friends with places like Iran.
Please from day one its obvious to any one who studies history that the pathetic idealism that he has as a grown man should have had a reality check along time ago... He needs to stop worrying about being buiddies with the fanatical muslim nations and start getting tough. I am not saying go to war but sanctions should have happened from the start. Ir an has no fear of us because we are all talk so they keep pushing the limits and threatening us. Saying we will regret taking action as they enrich there uranium to dangerous levels.
So what should we do sit back and wait til they destroy Israel...please no one wants Iran to get power they are way to involved with every terrorist group in the region and hated by all (including the surrounding Arab nations) they focus all their outrage on Israel because the sad reality is no Arab can say anything bad against them or be caleed Israel sympathisers and all those nations are scared to be thought of like that.
And yes we are broke so how come Obama keeps whipping out his credit card and spending the hell out of it?
To say you cant judge him its only been a year is a joke. You judge him from day one as everything he does affects this nation four atleast four years. So be realistic for once and tell the truth...what has he done? What good has he done?
Did he get rid of guantanamo? Did he pull out our troops from Iraq? Did he stop porkbarrel spending? He create 3 million jobs? Did he give more transparency?
I mean what has he done besides waste milions touring the country trying to push a healthcare system that the people are against. He wasted a whole year on healthcare while millions more lost their jobs...i wish he was that dedicated to bettering the country now
Posted 5 weeks ago. ( permalink )

Σταύρος says:

I <333> Posted 3 days ago. ( permalink )

d200 dug No censorship! says:

Woo Hoo Looks like America is going to become a Communist state and all that goes with it !

I can see the gates of the gulags opening now and the political prisoners being rounded up next week.

Praise the revolution comrade the mighty capitalist system will never survive modest health care reforms.
Posted 2 days ago. ( permalink )

GAIL MARIE ORENSTEIN says:

Yes, Doug-imagine that. That nigger and those faggots done give em Health care!!!
Posted 2 days ago. ( permalink )

ben aushtiin says:

It looks like a done deal in the works now, I wonder if a hospital Tylenol is still going to be 50 bucks?
Posted 2 days ago. ( permalink )